Are you walking with Elisabeth today? I haven’t gotten my walk in yet, but I have one planned for this morning with my dear friend K.
Carla and I got outside after dinner last night for a quick walk around our neighborhood. The topic? Mean kids.
Oh, how grateful I am that I am not in middle school any more. I would not go back to middle school for anything, that’s for sure. Or high school. It’s a miracle that any of us survives.
My memory of middle school is that I was neither popular enough to be “in” with the popular crowd nor enough of an outcast to be a target. But oh how I remember the popular crowd. Supposedly, there are two kinds of popularity: popularity through status and popularity through likability. While I can think of someone in high school who was most definitely the latter, the middle school ruling class seemed to operate through some complicated algorithm of beauty, power, and skill (at sports or academics or arts) that I’ve never quite been able to understand.
A few people seemed to always remain at the top of the popularity pyramid. They were the ones who had the ability to demote people from inner circle to outcast, or to promote people from unknown to one of the in-crowd. It seemed so capricious, the way people shifted positions. And the thing I didn’t understand then – and am no better at understanding as an adult – is how people could be nakedly mean to others, but if they were popular, other kids simply followed their lead.
One of my friends has a kid who has been bullied, on and off, for several years. It breaks my heart just to hear about it; of course it must be a thousand times worse for my friend, and even more awful for her kid. Our school has a very clear No Bullying policy, with a structured response system… maybe it makes an immediate difference in how kids treat each other, but it doesn’t seem to deter repeated bullying in the long term.
Bullying is, of course, its own horrific animal. But there’s also just run-of-the-mill mean. Saying you can’t sit next to them at lunch. Ignoring you in the hall. Whispering with another friend in front of you. Consistently rejecting your ideas. Deriding your appearance or behavior or belongings. Being mean to you in private but pleasant to you in person, so complaining makes you delusional or over-sensitive. And this is all in-person stuff. The sky is the limit for how nasty kids can be via digital means!
My memory is terrible – which is a blessing when it comes to some things. I can’t remember specific incidents in middle school. But I do remember the mean girls. How you could so easily fall from grace, for no greater blunder than wearing the wrong color shirt.
I could be misremembering, but it seems like my parents’ catch-all advice was “ignore them and they’ll go away.” Which is decent advice, as far as advice goes… and is also nearly impossible to do when you’re in middle school.
How DO you deal with mean kids in middle school????
Carla and I watched a bunch of YouTube videos together, purporting to offer techniques. We discussed the possible sources of meanness, and talked through a bunch of potential ways she could react to the current mean girl. Unfortunately, all the things I could come up with weren’t workable for some reason or other. Which I get. When you’re in middle school, things like friend groups and who sits where and what you can say to one another feel very rigid. For instance, one of Carla’s great strengths is that she is friendly with pretty much everyone, so I suggested she simply sit at a different table with another friend. But it sounds like there’s no precedent for moving among different friend groups, especially at lunch time.
How do you deal with mean people as an adult?
Fortunately, I haven’t had a lot of experience with mean people as an adult. And, even more fortunately, it is MUCH easier to avoid mean people as an adult. (It’s trickier when the mean person in question is a colleague, and the only tactics I’ve used in those cases are a) scrupulous professionalism and b) finding a new job.) On rare occasions, I’ve been able to call someone out (in an admittedly timid, conflict-averse way), saying something like, “Wow, that sounded pretty harsh.” Or “That hurt my feelings.” Or, in the case of comments about other people, “That person is my friend, so I’d prefer not to discuss her when she’s not here.” My best strategy is to be briskly friendly when I encounter the mean person, but to limit my interactions with them to the absolute minimum.
Years ago, there was a person in my circle who had some mean girl qualities. The main one was gossiping about people behind their backs. (Which, of course, made me highly reluctant to share anything with her about myself.) One day, she made a completely thoughtless comment about my friend who died. I was shocked, but in the moment, I was able to push back gently, saying something like, “Yikes. That probably didn’t come out the way you intended it!” only to have her double down. That was when I began disentangling myself from her for good.
But of course, when you’re in middle school, it’s nearly impossible to extricate yourself from a relationship with a mean kid! They are always there! In your classes, in the hallway, in the lunchroom, on the playground! In many cases, they are in your friend group – and why should you have to jettison your entire friend group because one person is a jerk? Middle school power dynamics make it difficult to oust someone from the top of the popularity pyramid… and, even if you manage to do it, where does that leave you? With a shiny new Mean Girl label on your chest?
It stinks so much when my kid is struggling and my only advice is “ignore it and it will go away.” Or “there will be a time after this.” Those things are so much harder to implement when you are twelve than when you are forty-three. There are lots of recommendations to have empathy for the mean kid, who must surely be mean because they feel bad about themselves or have something bad going on in their own lives. Empathy is important, don’t get me wrong. Carla and I have talked a ton about what might be driving mean behavior and how we should feel more pity than anger toward someone who’s mean. But empathy doesn’t fix the meanness.
Are there any books that offer real, usable advice? We already own several from the American Girl “Wellbeing” series, and I think I’m going to order this one as well. Now I’m worried that Carla might be too old for American Girl books. Perhaps I should also get her this one. And this one, too. (I always turn to books for advice, which makes me feel kind of like a dinosaur. But I can’t stop. And I do sometimes find Carla reading through the advice books I’ve gotten her, so I know she is aware of them and has turned to them in times of need.)
Is there any advice for parents whose kids are dealing with mean kids??? When my friend told me about her kid being bullied, all I could do was listen. I had no advice. She’s doing All The Things she can do besides switching schools; the bullying still happens. She’s read all the same stuff I have, about how the most important thing for kids being bullied is that they have a secure home life to turn to for support. She knows as well as I do that kids grow and change, popularity shifts. That her kid will eventually find Their People. That sometimes the only way out is through.
But oh, how impossibly hard that is. Especially when it’s your child’s soul that’s suffering.
And now I’m crying for your friend’s child. So cruel. I think I would probably change schools if possible, or at least get my kid involved in outside activities where they can have nice friends to get that reprieve. But really, there’s not much one can do when they are depending on someone else’s behavior to change. I don’t know how she feels about her faith, but it is helpful to remember that even Jesus was mocked and ridiculed and bullied, so He gets it. I would also keep her off social media for as long as possible so the mean comments don’t carry over from school to 24/7. These poor kids 🙁
I don’t know that there are a lot of options, for a variety of reasons, but I know it’s really, really hard. I hope things improve for my friend’s kid. It makes my heart hurt so much. I just want to put these kids inside a protective bubble… and maybe yeet the mean kids into the sea.
Elizabeth has a lot of trouble with this because her school is so SMALL. Like she’s been in class with the same twenty kids since fourth grade. She generally just sticks with being friendly-ish but not engaging and not trying to further the relationship but it has led to some problems because she has to be around all these people all the time. We usually go for “don’t engage” but there’s not a lot you can do when circumstances force you together.
Yes, the small schools are problematic! Sometimes you CANNOT AVOID PEOPLE! Sometimes your own teacher is all, “Do a group project with this person who is a butthole to you” and you can’t do anything about it.
Unfortunately I have only empathetic rage to offer, and nothing really helpful, because nothing really worked in any of the situations I remember. I was bullied-lite, my best friend was brutally bullied because she was pretty and developed early, and random other things because it never makes any freaking sense to me. My dad, who has often given good advice, was in the ‘don’t let them see that it hurts you’ school, which is just stupid and impossible when you’re already an over-sensitive kid.
Eve was briefly bullied in grade one, and it was terrible. The teacher handled it pretty well, and the bully didn’t really succeed in her mission to make Eve an outcast. I was on my way out the door to go yell at the mother one evening and Matt stopped me – still not sure if I’m grateful or bitter about that, lol. The bully later came back on the edges of Eve’s friend group and seemed cripplingly shy, and we found out some stuff about the family that changed our perspective slightly, but still…
If it had continued, I would have seriously considered changing schools. The thought of my kid going to school every day with a pit in their stomach anticipating horrible stuff would not be tenable, I don’t think. It’s so hard to say unless you’re in it, though.
The only books I remember having anything remotely helpful were Queen Bees and Wannabes and Wise-Minded Parenting: 7 essentials for raising tweens and teens, which was randomly sent to me to review. But a book is still just a book, and often the advice seems woefully inadequate for the real world.
Sorry for the insanely long comment – one of my buttons, obviously. Hugs to everyone involved.
I am clenching my hands into fists of anger thinking of someone bullying Eve. I think that kid and that kid’s mom really got off easy because Matt is so reasonable and level headed.
Ugggghhhh. And you and your friend had to go through it too??? That’s awful. Yeah, being miserable and then also being expected to hide how miserable you are is doubly awful. I guess it’s just more evidence that even our own parents had no idea what they were doing. Small comfort.
I am going to look for those books RIGHT NOW thank you very much! And you know I love long comments.
From 5th to 8th grade I was part of a nerdy, mildly bullied quartet of friends. Then we moved in 8th grade (for unrelated reasons) and from the middle of 8th to the beginning of 11th I just didn’t make friends (except for one brief friendship at the end of 9th). In the new school district, no one was mean to me, they just didn’t notice me and I wasn’t putting myself out there. I’d say the first situation was better because I had friends to bolster me even if people pushed me into the lockers on occasion.
North was also mildly bullied, mostly in elementary school, for their size (they were tiny). They dealt with it by sticking closer to their best friends. So keeping both of those situations in mind, I’d say leaning into the friendships the kid has (if any) can work sometimes.
This is such an interesting perspective, Steph, about having friends while being bullied vs. being lonely but unbothered… I love the idea of leaning into the good, safe friendships. Thanks for that. I’m sorry that you (and North) went through such a tough time, and I’m glad you had people to turn to.
I’m sending so much love to you, your friend, and her child. My youngest was bullied in elementary school, which is a big reason I pulled her out in 5th grade to homeschool her. There’s so much I could share, but it’s really her story, not mine. She’s now almost 18, in a small private school, and set to graduate in May. It’s been a journey.
Middle school is tough—especially for girls. Hormonal changes can really shake their confidence. I noticed that with Ella, though I saw her confidence return around sophomore year. Having emotionally mature parents makes such a difference, and you are so good at tuning in to Carla’s needs. I have no doubt you’ll support her through the ups and downs. If you ever need a shoulder, I’m always here. 😘💜
Ugh ugh ugh! Does anyone escape bullying?! So very sorry that Ella (and you) went through that too. I’m so glad that Ella’s confidence returned and that she had such support from her parents.
Thank you, friend. Me too. 💜
Oh, this breaks my heart. I wish I had some good avice to offer, but I don’t. I wish that people would just be kind. And a lot of them are. ❤️ But it only takes one bad apple to ruin it for everyone.
I tend to be a “people are mainly good” person myself, which makes it feel so astonishing to encounter people who are mean on purpose. Fortunately you are right that a LOT of people are kind.
Ignoring bullies seems like the way to go, but in teaching seminars we’re trained to encourage other students to confront in a non-physical way and to support the bullied person. Bullies are cowards by nature and will often back down if the bullied person obviously has the support of his/her peers. That’s tough in middle school though because standing up for a bullied student can make you a target.
Confronting someone else is SO HARD. I am impressed that you’re taught to encourage students to do that. I wish I had that kind of coaching when I was younger. I struggle with it to this day!
Suzanne, this is just all so hard and it is heartbreaking as a parent.
My daughter has had some issues with being bullied and middle school was the worst. She was in the same school for NINE years and once you were in a class, you were stuck there for a whole year. That’s hard because you literally can’t escape the bully. AND, sometimes you’re forced to sit by them, etc. We have talked to the administration before about making sure a specific person wasn’t in a child’s class, but even still. I can so relate.
I will say, that so far high school has been 10x better. It’s a much bigger school, you change classmates between classes so there is a lot less problem with cliques.
I also think it is almost always harder for girls. And I think the number 1 thing to prevent being bullied is athletic ability. I swear it’s like an invisibility cloak. I am not athletic and neither is my daughter, but my son is good at every sport he tries and it is like he automatically has both an activity and a built-in friend group everywhere we goes.
I have no straight advice to give, but it is so hard and you are doing the right thing in talking about it. Life is hard as an adult, but I think life as a middleschooler is the absolute hardest!
Oh, your sweet little girl. I’m so sorry she went through that, and I’m SO glad she’s in a better environment now!
This is so hard. I was the target of bullying by a group of mean girls in seventh grade, and it was not fun. THings eased up in eighth grade and then by high school it was a non-issue. But it was something I carried around with me for a long time.
It’s very hard for kids because this is the age where they really, really need to fit in. That’s why adult wisdom doesn’t usually work. Actually- I can’t remember the last time I dealt with mean adults. Sometimes at work the clients will be kind of mean, but it’s never directed towards me.
I do think the schools are more proactive about this now, and my kids didn’t have any problems in middle school (phew.) I hope Carla and your friend’s daughter are okay… it sucks that they have to deal with this.
Dr. Lisa Damour is my absolute go-to for all advice regarding adolescence. She has wonderful books, but her podcast is the real goldmine. She takes questions on a variety of topics and her co-host is a regular mom who is not afraid to be honest about her flaws and often unproductive instincts in her own parenting. I know they have covered this topic! One of the things I have heard from several sources is trying to make sure the kiddo has at least one good, solid friendship, and to help them diversify the friendship opportunities through activities, etc. Seriously though, Dr Lisa is the absolute GOAT, go check out the Ask Dr Lisa archives!
sometimes I think the answer really is to change schools and apparently there is some data on this! Mean people suck and sometimes there is no other way out.
I have no solutions to offer. I think anti-bullying programs in schools can sometimes be effective but if a bully is persistent it’s going to be difficult to resolve the situation.
I was bullied sometimes in elementary school but I knew my family loved me and that got me through.
This is so hard, and it breaks my heart for your friend’s child, and yours too. It seems to me, that you are doing all the right things.
Linds still has terrible memories of Middle School. She was ‘outed’ from her friend group, all of a sudden, by the Head Bitch, and struggled from there on out, until High School, where she made different friends.
I don’t know why it happens at that age, that girls can be so mean. Hormones? Stuff at home? Little Terrorists, that’s what they are.
My daughter (she’s 29) and I watched the movie Thirteen yesterday, and she said that the film gets middle school right.
Did you ever see that movie? It’s over the top, and the parents are useless and the kids go wild. But what she said she meant was that FEELING of being bullied and wanting to be accepted by the ‘cool kids’. I’m not suggesting you watch it with her, it’s crazy. Just struck me with your post and the timing.
I was bullied a bit in middle school by two girls who used to walk behind me and make fun of me. My daughter was bullied by a girl who pretended to be her friend, but then bullied her via text when she didn’t want to get involved in the risky behavior her friend was involved in.
She didn’t tell me the why of it back then, just told me yesterday. But I remember holding my sobbing daughter at the time, as she tried to figure out why her friend was being so cruel to her.
I’m sorry I don’t have advice. If she’s involved in sports, and if the bullies are NOT, that might help. If she has other close friends, I hope they can help. I’m so sorry this is happening to your friend’s child, and that Carla is dealing with it as well.
The only advice that I would add is that if you are already considering doing something as drastic as switching schools it might be time to have a serious conversation with the school admin (who likely want to avoid a reputation as a school where bullying can happen) or even talk directly with the parents of the child who is being unkind and bullying. This is not always great advice! But if my child was bullying someone to the point that they were thinking about leaving the school I would want to know about it and I think that many other parents would, too.
So many people give their kids smartphones without oversight and are genuinely shocked when confronted with their child’s texts, emails, and search history. The same can be true for behavior. Again, this can backfire in a million ways but I would at least want to try a gentle conversation with another parent before pulling my kid out of school. The school might even be able to facilitate this conversation. My brother was bullied in middle school and this is what my parents did (along with touring a local private school). The other family was defensive but had no idea up until then that their child had purposely dumped glue on my brother’s chair, etc. They were part of the accountability structure going forward.
I have no advice, no suggestions, only wanted to say that I get it, and I’m so sorry that Carla – and you – are going through this. All the hugs to you, my friend. <3
Uff. This is tough. I don’t have kids and therefore no real advice, other than you should check out “Jefferson Fisher’s Instagram” about having better conversations (and how to respond to people). It’s not geared towards kids, but maybe there is some good advice on how to deal with bullies.
Carla sounds a lot like me – I always tried to be friends with everyone and I defended the outsiders, but it’s a tough place to be when you’re also trying to just make it through middle school.